The Spiritual Intelligence Podcast
Awaken Your Inner Power



SQ Podcast Ep. 008

Do Your Best and Spirit Takes Care of the Rest,
with Harry Derbitsky

"Psychologically, the way your little mind works, it's in a constant state of turmoil all the time, ever changing, never solid, inconsistent. The level inside, the spiritual level, is always constant. Are you going to deal with the always constant or the ever-changing to try and figure out what something is? The ever constant is the simple one. The ever-changing is impossible to get your head around."

~ Harry Derbitsky

Harry is going to conduct a pipe ceremony for the SQ Community on 05-August.
Join us if you are interested in exploring and deepening your understanding. 

Spiritual Intelligence Podcast ~ Awaken Your Inner Power

Welcome to the eighth episode, where Daniel Martinez Stahl and Harry Derbitsky explore:

  • How working with the indigenous increased his mystical understanding of the Three Principles.
  • How Harry shifted to more happiness and contentment when he let go and stopped trying, when he gave up.
  • How inner power is the our ability to feel the presence of God within, and trusting in the guidance it brings.
  • A psychological and spiritual perspective to help us through our inevitable struggles and challenges.
  • How everything is about the oneness of life and that when you do your best, Spirit will take care of the rest.
  • Harry's most recent books and both agree that the Principles help ground the mystical into our humanity.

YouTube Raw Video of Interview

Harry Derbitsky

Harry begins by explaining how his experience with the mystical aspects of his indigenous work lead to a deeper understanding of the spiritual nature of the Three Principles, as described by Sydney Banks, who was his teacher. He shares how the objective of Sydney Banks was to help people become better human beings, which resulted in sharing more love, less negativity and psychological resolution.

Harry then describes some of the lessons he learned from his indigenous experiences and a shift in his own understanding that came at the age of 65-69, when he stopped trying and simply focused on happiness and contentment. He retells the metaphor of fishing in a river with a bear who is pooping upstream and how eventually we begin to recognize it and let it drift by without trying to catch it in our nets.

Daniel asks Harry about inner power, which Harry mentions is an indigenous term, and says it is "simply the ability to to feel the presence of a God within you, and being able to trust the guidance of that, while dropping personal thoughts and beliefs. Daniel asks Harry to elaborate on what he means by spiritual identity, which he describes as oneness. 

Harry then tells the story of how he became a pipe carrier and speaks of a couple examples of conducting different pipe ceremonies, as a white man at the center, leading the ceremonies. Which leads Harry to speak about his more recent projects with addiction and alcohol, exploring the Three Principles in a muslim environment, and mental health transformations. 

Daniel asks Harry to share what he would say to people who are struggling with challenges in their lives, which we all do at times, and Harry describes it from the psychological as well as the spiritual perspective. Daniel then asked a "how to" question to help the listeners better understand the practicality of what Harry has been sharing. Harry describes how every problem is the result of overthinking and the solution is simply to let go.

Harry proposes that the mantra of the conversation is, "you do your best, and Spirit will take care of the rest." This leads to both of them sharing their thoughts about how we are God and that I am, we are, one. Followed by how all healing at the psychological or spiritual level happens in the now. Daniel shares how it reminds him of being aligned to our higher selves and the energy of life. 

Harry shares how we are speaking from an energetic "us" space and how the truth that is shared by either one of us, is Spirit. After a little more back and forth, Daniel asks Harry to speak about his two latest books. The one about going home includes content from other Three Principles practitioners and the book about finding freedom is a little more more focused around the mystical aspects of life.

Daniel and Harry then share how the Three Principles are incredible at helping us find our grounding in our human experience while we explore the mystical aspects of our spiritual nature.

"The reality is when magic happens in your life, you go beyond your dreams. You don't achieve your dreams, you go beyond your dreams. Which would you rather, achieve your dream or go beyond your dream?" 

~ Harry Derbitsky

About Harry Derbitsky:

Harry is privileged to teach very diverse audiences and works with clients from every continent in the world. His clients all have presumed problems in their lives — with or without addiction issues. It seems to him, each and every client initially has only one question and one problem on their mind:

Complaints about the content of their thoughts, and wondering how they can control these thoughts.

The wide variety of problems all sound different, but simply speaking, they all start from the same source, Thought. The woman who is hooked on addictive opioids is no different from the man who is diagnosed with mental health struggles or the woman who believes she has an eating disorder, even though she is not overweight. Nor do they differ from the businessman who experiences anxiety and stress in his workday or the mother with low self esteem and a myriad of insecure thoughts about her life or the couple who have marriage problems, or the spiritual seeker who does not see his or her connection to God.

His understanding is expressed via his insights regarding the Three Universal Principles of Mind, Consciousness and Thought, as uncovered by his teacher Sydney Banks, who stated "all human behavior and social structures on earth are formed via Mind, Consciousness and Thought." (The Missing Link)

Harry specializes in projects and training's in these major areas:

  • Addictions and Low Income/High Risk
  • Indigenous (Native American)
  • Mental Health -- Educating and Counseling
  • Mentoring

Website: www.acttraining.biz

Books:
Evolution of Addiction Recovery: Addiction, There is a Way Home
Evolution of Addiction Recovery Re-Opened: Addiction, There Is a Way to Total Freedom

Addiction, Alcoholism & Three Principles
https://www.acttraining.biz/addiction-alcoholism-podcast
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y_NNYUW6YHqFILz7iSmjQ

TAWHID: Spiritual Unity of the Three Principles Webinar and Podcast Series
https://www.acttraining.biz/tawhid-podcasts
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMlRJI43vAagTPHxeRwMRrQ

Mental Health Transformations
https://www.acttraining.biz/pursuit-of-truth-regarding-mental-h


. 

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Life Beyond Form Three Principles Transformational Personal and Executive Coaching Spiritual Intelligence Exploration Past Life Regression Life Between Lives Reiki Healing

Daniel Martinez Stahl works with people who want to thrive in this life, with the willingness and courage to question conventional ideas and a desire to look within to access the power of their infinite potential. People who are driven to improve their life by exploring what it means to be both spirit and human; who have a curiosity about life itself, of how the mind works and about the relationship between their body, mind and spirit. Fundamentally, someone who is committed to change their life to a new normal by aligning with their higher self, innate well-being and inner wisdom. 

For more information go to: www.LifeBeyondForm.com 

Scrolling Transcript...

(SQP-Ep.008 ~ Do Your Best and Spirit Takes Care of the Rest ~ w. Harry Derbitsky)
Editor Note: Minor edits have been made from the original audio recording for easier reading.

(opening intro music begins)

Intro Text: Welcome to the spiritual intelligence podcast, Awakening your inner power with Daniel Martinez Stahl, where we will explore, discover and integrate different aspects of our spiritual and human nature, so that we can all thrive and live life with more grace and ease, instead of struggle. 

(intro music fades away)

Daniel: Welcome to the Spiritual Intelligence Podcast once again, my name is Daniel Martinez Stahl and today I'm joined by Harry Derbitsky. Harry is someone that I have just actually recently connected with, but I'm very excited about where this conversation is going to go today, and also where my relationship with Harry is going to go in the future as well. There's an alignment that I feel between us, and a lot of excitement on my end whenever I think about this conversation. So, anyway, I'll let Harry introduce himself. At a very high level, for me what's really exciting is that Harry has a lot of experience with the Three Principles and he has spent years also within the indigenous community and so for me, that balance between the two and the collaboration between both spaces is one of the reasons that, again, I was really interested in having him be part of this conversation. So Harry, if you could just give us a little background about you and then we'll get started from there.

Harry: Yeah, basically I'm — my company is called ACT Training Inc. or Advanced Coaches Training, and I was an original student of Sydney Banks and in the context of that, I was looking for the spiritual nature of life, for the spiritual nature of the Principles and not so much to connect it to the practical aspect of life. I just sort of wanted to find out my connection to God, and the reason I mention it like that is that in the Three Principles, which often is seen as the spiritual-psychological paradigm, with heavy emphasis on the psychological, I place much more emphasis on the spiritual side. 

So, clients who come to me, through the Three Principles world, either have had a transformation or some kind of experience, but they feel limited by what they have absorbed, and they're looking for the ability to soar with the eagles, which is of course an indigenous image, type of thing. And, those who want to soar, who want to go into the beyond-mind type of understanding of what the formless nature of the Principles are, those are the clients and people that are attracted to what I do. And to compliment that, when the psychologist came everybody went into following and being with the psychologist and I went instead, into the indigenous world and the mystical world. And within that, I experienced certain mystical insights to compliment what I have learned from Syd, and it served to provide me with a bit of a unique perspective. The perspective of where Syd was coming from. Not where 3P is coming from, not where the psychologists are coming from, but where Syd was coming from. So, he was interested in the spiritual nature of the Principles. 

Now, interesting when the psychologist came, Daniel, what happened was he had to talk to them and he'd only basically talked to hippies and so on, type of people, and I thought "well he must have changed when he talked to them," but he didn't really. With the hippies, with the first group of people, what he talked about was simple, what Mind is. Of course, Mind he defined when the psychologist came as a psychological word for God. So he talked about God and consciousness etcetera, and so Mind became that word. And then, so he, how — what is Mind? And then he added a half sentence for the psychologist cuz they're practical people, dealing with the practical level of wrong thinking and the half-phrase he added was "and how it applies to life. So, we had the spiritual nature of Mind and how it applies to life, to make you a better human being. 

So, the object of the exercise was not to be a teacher or coach or to change the world, the object was to be become a better human being, and as you became a better human being, you naturally shared more love, you naturally thought less in the negative sphere of life and the psychological worked its way through. Now, the problem I had was, Syd loved that I was in the indigenous world because I was the only guy in it. He said, "ah, you found a niche, your a smarty pants," and the first thing he said to me, "Don't call it Mind, Thought and Consciousness; call it Spirit, Thought and Consciousness with the indigenous, they don't want to hear about Mind, they want to hear about Spirit." And perhaps your crowd is also interested in Spirit and what it translates. 

And the indigenous have portals that are opened up, Daniel, that perhaps in your Spanish culture they have portals you noticed that are open up, that let's say the non-Spanish people have trouble relating to, the gifts that the people have. And the indigenous have big portals opened up, and of course, some portals not opened up that white people have, that non-indigenous people have. But these openings allow them to tap into the spiritual nature of silence. That's what — I asked an elder, "how come the indigenous walk so easily into silence?" Cuz they do, and he says, "It's instinctual to us." And I said, "Ahh, of course," and then I related, "and it's instinctual to everyone, except some people just aren't open to it, so they don't walk into it." But it is instinctual to us as a human being to walk into the silence, and when we walk into the silence, we experience psychological healing. We experience physical healing, we experience creativity and positive, positive direction. We can hear that thought creates a feeling. 

Now when, Syd talked about that, whenever Syd used the word Thought, primarily he wasn't talking psychological thought. He was talking about spiritual Thought, so when he was saying change Thought, he means from the higher dimension of Thought, not from the psychological level of Thought. But, at the psychological level it works to a degree, as well. And so, I started to have to put the pieces together and for quite a long time I didn't put the pieces together. So I was kind of not getting his true message, the purity of his message.

And then at 65, I decided, forget about life. I wasn't interested anymore, and I just got happy and content. I had no money and I just got happy and content. And life simplified, really simplified and then for about four years — I want to talk about how practical this is — so for four years I just got happy and content, and what happened was 90% of my bad habits dropped away. I didn't work on them, Daniel, they dropped aways, and I said, "Oh, is that the way it works? If you don't think about it," (Daniel begins laughing) Hasta la vista. 

Daniel: Like they say, "The penny dropped." (Daniel continues laughing) 

Harry: The penny dropped, yeah. That's right, and you can hear it, you know, pick it up, type of thing. So, the penny drops and and I see, oh, all the time I've been wasting my time talking about the problem and trying to fix the problem, or worrying about the problem, or being aggravated by the problem, or experiencing panic around the problem, and it creates worry and stress and anxiety, all those big words that the community of life love to talk about, and the answer to it is avoid it. But of course the level of psychology today is, "No, no, no, point, pick it, point at it, hit it hard, find out what it means and then once you see what it is, you'll get rid of it." It works the exact opposite. The less you think about it, the more relaxed you are about it, the easier it flows on by. 

It's kind of like the story that my co-host of Addiction Alcoholism and the Three Principles (https://m.facebook.com/groups/985734518146019) does, called Greg Suchy, he said, "Upstream there's a bear and it drops a big load of poop and you're fishing downstream and you pull it, 'oh' and you pull the poop in, and you examine it, and play with it and then suddenly you realize, 'oh my God, it's poop!' and you throw it back in the stream and it continues to float on by, of course you have to wash your hands and get rid of the stuff, and then the bear, of course is a piggy and it plops another big poop in there, you're sitting there and you pull it in and go on and you examine it and go, 'oh my God it's another piece of poop,' and you throw it back in the stream finally, and then by the third time you go, 'oh, it's a poop floating in the water, I think I'll let it float on by.'" That's the psychological. People say, "Well it can't be that simple, cuz whenever I think about my problem," — the thinking is the creation of netting the poop and examining it and as soon as you think about it you're stuck with it, because Thought creates form, Thought creates energy, Thought create feeling, and with Thought and Consciousness all of a sudden our reality is created.

So, you simply — in those four years, all that happened was life got easy. I didn't have much money and then money started to come. It shouldn't have come, but it did. And I, ah, I didn't have — I had all these psychological hang-ups and stuff, and they just washed away. And, I looked and went, "When did I become a nicer person?" People are complimenting me, oh, you're so kind and gentle (Daniel begins laughing) and my daughter, who was married to this beautiful guy, would talk about me, she'd say, "Dad had a terrible temper," and he says, "Well who are you talking about?" She says, "My dad!" He'd say, "He can't be your dad, he never loses his temper." She said, "no, not, he lost his temper all," he said, "that's impossible, he never loses his temper." 

I just had become different. You see the level of consciousness — the spiritual level heals, the psychological level contaminates. That's its nature. Psychologically, the way your little mind works, it's in a constant state of turmoil all the time, ever changing, never solid, inconsistent. The level inside, the spiritual level, is always constant. Are you going to deal with the always constant or the ever-changing, to try and figure out what something is? The ever constant, is the simple one. The ever-changing is impossible to get your head around. That's psychology. And so, the ever constant, I stepped into that feeling, I all of a sudden was content and happy. All of a sudden I said that's part of the nature of the Three Principles, happiness and contentment, "Oh, I know they're spiritual, and they are psychological and, you know, and all that stuff." But, you know, happiness and contentment is a product of that. And then at 69, the practical side of the miracle. 

You see people, if you're living in the physical world, you're not moving very fast. You're stuck in time. I don't care what you're achieving. You might be making a million dollars, or a zillion dollars today, but you're stuck because you're not evolving with the magic of life, the spirit of life. You got to go beyond your head or you ain't going nowhere, zippo, you're going to have a — you might have a big ego and think you're doing really good, like, you know, some of the guys in the States, but it doesn't mean you were doing great. It just means you're trying to convince yourself you're doing great. The reality, the reality is when magic happens in your life, you go beyond your dreams. You don't achieve your dreams, you go beyond your dreams. Which would you rather Daniel, achieve your dream or go beyond your dream?

Daniel: Hm, let me think about that? (chuckling) Great, thank you so much. (Harry: yeah) Okay, so, I do want to answer your question, but I also want to get started, and I don't want to ignore your question. Of course, I would like to go beyond my dreams. There is a conversation that I heard the other day that we are, as a planet and as a race of humanity, our community is evolving and part of this evolution is going to get to a point where we won't even recognize ourselves. Where we won't — we have no way of understanding what is available to us because we have no concept of it, and for me that's what going beyond dreams is. Is, you're going to experience things and things will happen and life is going to become something more than we can even imagine, and for me that's what going beyond dreams is.

Harry: Well that's what it is.

Daniel: Yeah. So, let me ask you a question just to kind of get the conversation started. Awakening to your inner power, is a phrase that helped me in the creation of this podcast, so I would love to get your thoughts on what does inner power mean to you?

Harry: Inner power is a really simple concept, It's not an image, it's a fact. So, the more you can feel the reality, which is your inner power, the more real you're acknowledging God, the more real you're acknowledging the God in you. The more you can trust the fact of life, rather than the Illusions created by the thoughts of mankind. So, inner power, which is, by the way, an indigenous term, gathering personal power. It's just simply the ability to to feel the presence of a God within you, and being able to trust the guidance of that aspect of it, and dropping what you personally think, your beliefs, dropping your beliefs. Not paying attention. It's not like your little mind, Daniel, stops, it's just you're paying attention to the real goods, personal power, rather than illusionary power, which is ego. So, people out there are worshiping the physical form, they're paying more attention to their lack of personal power and their mental thinking. Thinking that if they give that up, those ideas, they'll lose who they are, their identity. Sydney Banks talked about your spiritual identity, that's personal power. 

Daniel: Can you speak a little bit more about that spiritual identity?

Harry: Sure. The reality is what we are and what we're not. What we are is a spiritual identity. We are Spirit, under the illusion that you and I are separate, under the illusion that because I have free will to think what I want, I can do whatever I want to do. But I wasn't brought here to do what I want to do, I was brought here to share love, and caring, and compassion. I was here to help. I was here to be part of the greater. So, as soon as you include anything beyond your own being, you're on the road to recovery, you're into the road of oneness. Spiritual identity means oneness. Simple, ay?. 

Daniel: That simple. (Harry: ah ha) Would you be able to speak to me or speak to us a little bit about some of the – I wanted to say some of the lessons that you learned from your experience in the indigenous culture, but that doesn't quite feel right. But I would love to learn more about your experience in the Indigenous culture.

Harry: Each person — you see, Syd said in his unpublished biography, psychology did not, he did not pick psychology, psychology picked him. So, when everyone went into psychology and so on, I knew I couldn't go there. I wasn't interested in it. So indigenous picked me, and took me into the mystical part of the world. Cuz I was much more interested in the mystical side of the journey, rather than the psychological side of the journey. But what it did was, it took me into things — Syd explained it fully, and it was very simple and — but I needed something a little more exotic, and so the indigenous teaching with the pursuit of indigenous wisdom, how does it relate to 3P wisdom, how do the two connect together, as one. So, that became my journey cuz I couldn't see it.

And as I stepped into the indigenous world, I saw that I didn't want to work with the Chiefs and the administration, and I wanted to work with the Spirit people. I was more interested in that. White people I wanted to work with the business thing, because there was money in it. But with the indigenous, I was much more interested in the wisdom and the spiritual ceremonies and so on. So, I went into that aspect of it and as I went into it they still wouldn't listen to me, but then I helped an indigenous man in Nevada who was in prison and he was the lead pipe carrier for the Nevada prisons — I never met him, we just wrote — and he sent me a pipe, an incredible pipe, very powerful pipe. It was the lead pipe for the Nevada prison district and he was the lead pipe carrier.

And I became a pipe carrier, and within that pipe carrier, I then took two indigenous names, Standing Elk and Buffalo Spirit Walks the Earth. And within the pipe, it provided me with two things that I needed to have to grow in the mystical world. First, you have to share of course and they wouldn't listen to me but when I was a pipe carrier, they would listen to me. It's like a PhD in the white world, except way higher than a PhD. And, so now I had the highest degree, and also you have to remember I wasn't an apprentice pipe carrier because I already knew, I'd gone inside, and I had connected with the Three Principles. So, I had an anchor in the mystical world, it's easy to get lost, really easy to get lost, and so I had that type of experience. 

And then the pipe started to talk to me, it started to guide me and it started to bring me good luck, and it started to — I started to open up to my mystical gifts. So I started to understand the mystical nature of Harry, in terms of sharing the pipe, which at a certain point, the pipe ceremony and the 3P sharing became one, they were no different, and at that point I had joined the two worlds into one. Simple, ay? 

Daniel: Simple, always going back to simplicity. So, in terms of deepening your understanding of your spiritual nature through your, the mystical aspect of your ceremonies, can you speak a little bit more about that?

Harry: Let me preempt it and then I'll describe an experience. (Daniel: yeah, that would be great) So, the first is, when you enter as a white man into the spiritual, mystical nature, as a pipe carrier, naturally there's competition and jealousy and stupidity. So, they all wanted me to follow them, but they weren't living their words. And they all wanted me to be part of the ceremony, but to follow them, because they knew if I was there, the ceremony would go higher, it would go deeper and it would be a more spiritual experience. I'm not going to get into that aspect of it. 

And so, at a certain point I became confused, and I don't get confused very often, but I was very confused. And I went to Nevada, to visit, to find out, to meet this pipe carrier who had been let out of prison after 35 years or so, and uh — cuz is in the States they throw away the key, Daniel, they're really stupid. And so I took the pipe and I went to Grapevine Canyon and whenever I bring the pipe out, an eagle always comes, in Nevada. Always, 100% of the time. So an Eagle comes and there's petroglyphs and then I have a mystical gift of talking to sandstone rocks. They talk to me, and so I said — so now I have but I have a little concave, it's a hundred and ten degrees, I've got everything laid out, I've got the pipe, and I say, and I'm bewildered, I'm beaten, and I say, "Am I a pipe carrier?"  And they say, the Spirits, "See, nobody can make you a pipe carrier, no human can make you a pipe carrier, only the Spirit can make you a pipe carrier." You can practice and learn as an apprentice, but until the Spirit tells you you're a pipe carrier, personal power here, you aren't.

And the pipe — and the Spirit sent to me, "Oh, we love you, you are absolutely a pipe carrier, we love what you're doing," and then I said, "Well, why do they tell me all this stuff to do?" and they said, "Oh, don't worry about that stuff, that's for them, not for you, you're already way above that." I said, "Oh, well that feels kind of easy, I can deal with that." So, at that moment I became a pipe carrier, and then I said to them, "Well, how come I'm not sharing more with the people? You know, we have some wisdom and we want to help." and they said, "Oh, don't worry about that, you follow this, and you'll see that it will work out, you do your best Harry and will take care of the rest." And that's the mantra, you do your best Daniel, (Daniel begins chuckling) and the Spirit will take care of the rest. That's all you have to do is your best, and you know sometimes you don't do your best, and it doesn't work out and you feel guilty. But if you do your best, and it doesn't work out, it feels good, because you can't do better than your best. But most times when you do your best, it works out.  

So, I then went back into Vancouver and the area and stuff, of course they wanted me to follow them, but I wasn't following them anymore cuz I knew, they were wanting, they were like — they needed their beliefs supported, they were on the belief system still, they needed their beliefs supported and if I said no, it shook their belief system up. That's the way religion is, or Shamanism is. And so, I was on my own now. You see that independent feeling, personal power. Independent to what other people think, personal power. You don't care, you don't care about results, you don't care about any of this stuff. You're detached. And so, I just started to share where the energy — see the spirit brings. 

And so now I'm going to talk about an experience, I have had many of these, so one of my dear friends, indigenous friends, passed away. I decided to do a pipe ceremony for her. In the indigenous world there's, they call them smoke signals, it's just like word goes out like wildfire. So, 200 people show up for this pipe ceremony, all indigenous, all the wisest elders, and there's one guy in the middle, who's doing the pipe ceremony, me. The white guy. The only white guy in the whole setting and I'm doing the pipe ceremony. And I go, "Ahhhhhh!!! Don't think Harry or you're cooked, you're dead meat." (Daniel begins to laugh) Honest, honest. 3P, ay? Don't think or you're dead meat. 

And I started the ceremony, it was about an hour and a half to two hours, with beautiful stuff — I have a lot of great medicines and stuff, and at the end, the wisest elder got up and said, "Harry's teaching us to pray." That's, that's unbelievable that a white guy can be in the middle of the whole Indian tribes, and be doing the ceremony. And recently I just went up north, a little bit, two Elders asked me to come up, she was celebrating his 70th birthday, and again I did it in front of 40 people, and it was a beautiful and powerful pipe ceremony. All I'm being is myself. You see, before I tried to do it Indian-style, but I'm not an Indian, Daniel. I'm a 74 year old Jew. 

You know, so maybe I'm entitled to sell a few pennies, you know, but the reality of it is, I have no background at all in it. But they all know, I'm inside the bubble. You see Daniel, there's bubbles and most of the people, 98% of the non- — 99.9% of the non-indigenous people are outside the bubble, thinking they know what it's like being inside the bubble. I am inside the bubble. They know it, they can feel it, cuz that's their indigenous, they can feel the bullshit and the truth, and the personal power, and so I'm allowed to play. 

Am I accepted by all of them, noooo, because they're full of hokey pokey too. But the wise ones, you bet. They love me. And why do they love me? Because I love them. And how do I see them? I don't see them as indigenous, they're just people. Spirit people. Like you. You're a shaman sharing the truth as you see it. I'll give you a feather after the show.

Daniel: Oh, I would love that. (both begin laughing) 

Harry: Yeah, so, you can see the growing, as I'm exposed to unusual sharing. Now, if I can do that, of course, what happened was that Addiction, Alcohol and the Three Principles came to me (https://www.acttraining.biz/podcast/categories/addiction-alcoholism-the-3-princ). Did I know anything about indigenous? No. Did I know anything about addiction? No, never been addicted, never took a psychology course, became a leading expert in 3P, did our shows for three and a half years, 25,000 downloads in the last year, type of thing, in our podcast and two and a half million after-show minutes viewed on the on the stuff. And then we stopped at and now I'm doing Tawhed, Spiritual Unity of the Three Principles (https://www.acttraining.biz/tawhid-podcasts), taking Three Principles into the muslim community. Obviously it's a perfect combination, we've got a twenty-seven-year-old Muslim from Morocco and a 74 year old Jew from Canada, these two groups get along so well, that of course there is no problem whatsoever. But, again, there's no prejudice. We're just sharing love. It's all love, guys. You share love, you get love. You share bullshit, guess what you get, "There's that cow dung coming down stream, I'm going to net it." You know, instead of letting it go on by. 

And now I'm doing another show, not another show, a group, a closed group of six, mental health transformation. Six people who have had major transformations, we've done in the last 4 months about 20 podcasts and webinars and we're taking it out to the world. Oh, expert, obviously I am. Because A) I've never been mental ill, diagnosed anyway, and B) I've never taken a psychology course, and C) I don't teach mental illness, I don't teach anxiety. Client comes to me, she say, "oh, I'm highly anxious," I figured well that's about 5 minutes. You know, "I need ten sessions minimum," and I said, "Ok," and she said, "I want to pay." Ok, I'd do it for free but if you want to pay, go ahead. And in the second session I said, "How are you doing?" She says, "Well, actually really, really good," I said, "well isn't that better than anxiety?" She says, "actually, yeah." She had it already, but she had to do the other eight sessions, she paid for it. And how many times Daniel, did I talk about anxiety, in the whole time?

Daniel: Probably not once.

Harry:  Probably not once. (Daniel chuckles) I'm not interested. I'm interested in happiness and contentment. 

Daniel: For people that are listening to this and are currently experiencing challenges in their life...

Harry: Which everybody is.

Daniel: ...which everybody goes through and everybody is, to some degree or another, at some point or another; and we will always continue to be faced with challenges, regardless of what we know and what we're learning. (Harry: That's right...) But I would love to... (Harry: whether they're physical...) Go ahead, whether they're physical?

Harry: Physical, mental, spiritual, psychological, whenever. They come in many different — financial, emotional —  they come in many different bundles. 

Daniel: Sure, so I would love to get your thoughts on what you would share that would help somebody that is currently struggling. 

Harry: Well, it's very simple, let's do it from two perspectives: the psychological perspective and the spiritual perspective. Because they are slightly different answers but they're both saying the same thing, or they both lead to the same answer. From the psychological level, all problems, whatever they are, are caused by one thing and only one thing. All problems, they're all caused by overthinking. So every client comes to me, every client, no matter what the description of the challenge and the problem is: mental health scenario, "I'm bipolar or I'm addicted to heroin, or I've got — I'm stressed out by, and I'm overworking." It's all caused by the same thing, they don't like their thoughts and they want to know how to control them. So, all problems are caused by overthinking and you can't control your Thought. It's impossible. So, that alone is a hint. 

So I had a scenario in Columbia, where I was teaching a closed group of South Americans — I think you're South American, is that right? 

Daniel: I'm from Guatemala, so Central American.

Harry: Yeah, it's central, close enough. Pretty close, (Daniel begins to chuckle) no offense but to North American's that's good enough. (Daniel: I'm south of the United States (and continues laughing)) That's what I meant. I know Guatemala is next to Mexico and stuff, but basically that — Central America and South America, you all look the same, so, you know, and you all speak Spanish, type of thing, you know. So, you're Guatemalan, and so, this is Colombian and I guess a couple other South American's, six of them anyway. And I said, "bring me a client, I'll teach you how to counsel them." The only problem is, these are sessions that were going great, Daniel. Only problem was I had never really done a counseling [session] in front of clients before, and of course if I blow it, the whole sessions are all good-bye. 

And so they brought one and so I went through that first thought scenario. You see it? Insecurity. You hear it? "Oh, if I don't do well, I'll lose all the crowd and all this," and then all of a sudden I calmed down. And I realized, "Wait a sec, all problems are caused by overthinking, I know how to answer that question, if they calm their mind down, go to a quieter feeling." That I understand. I don't know the descriptions of the problems. You don't get into the description of the problems. You get into the essence of the Principles, the wrong use of thought overthinking, is the cause. First cause is indigenous. You use the word personal power, they use personal power, they also used the phrase, first cause. Psychology? Eight cause, way down the road, type of thing, and then bring it back to fourth cause, but not to first cause.

So, all problems are caused by overthinking. So, all of a sudden, I was relaxed. I said, "Well, I can answer that question," and sure enough the guy comes on and he says, "well, I have a drinking..." and I said, "Nah, that's not your problem, come on, let's get a little bit..." and it went really, really well and suddenly, I had a piece of the puzzle. So, all problems are caused by overthinking.

If Daniel has got an emotional problem, it's caused by overthinking. His mind is too "speedy", it's too active, it's too opinionated, it's too conceptual, it's too judgmental, it's too caught up in the past. And you know, in the Three Principles, anything in the past, bringing it into the present, is dynamite damage. So, psychologically, you just, you just — so what do I do? I tell a bad joke. It works like a charm. The guy laughs, he's beaten it already. Because the moment he laughs, he's not serious. He became — Daniel became too serious about his problem, he laughed, he liked it better than being serious, so he wanted to stay there, he wanted another bad joke. Ok, I've got lots of bad jokes. So, and the level goes up. Once the level goes up, you're engaging in a different human being.

The level of consciousness has gone up now, and when the level of consciousness goes up, that's the healing. Not what you talk about, not the details. You don't want to talk about the details of the problem. You want to get a specimen maybe, but you don't want to get into the details. You want to just get into the feeling, and as the level of consciousness goes up, it heals. And it might heal in ways and areas that you don't even know you were asking, which is generally what happens. It brings a whole "kit" with it. You see, when the level goes up — this is Syd now talking — when the level goes up, you get a kit, and the kit comes in and brings all these answers to all these situations. Once you've fulfilled that kit, done all that stuff, bingo, another door opens up, and you go, "I wonder what's in that door?" errrrrrrrrr (sound of a door squeaking open), "Oh, this is a neat room." You go into the room and go, "Oh, look, there's this kit here," and you go look at the kit, you examine it, you start playing with it. And then after a while you notice there's a nice comfy chair in the middle of the room, you sit down in the room, "ahhhh, gee, this feels really good," get a little complacent and little lazy and then you will look around, "Oh, there's another door." You open up to the door, "ahhh, it's a great room," and you explore the room and get into that stuff. So, if you don't stop, you go. When you stop, you're just stuck in time. You just,  you stopped. You didn't have to stop. You know, if the light is not red you don't have to stop. You just keep going. 

So spiritually now, the same problem. Everything is perfectly designed for Daniel. Everything that comes in, your sickness, your suffering, all your stuff, it's all perfectly designed to teach you that you're not plugged in. Your job is to be plugged in. So, when bad things happen, you stay plugged in. See, it's perfectly designed to teach you what you have to learn right now. And you don't question it. Why question it? God knows what he's doing. You don't, you're an idiot. God knows. God knows exactly what you need right now. You, the idiot, think you know what you need and are totally wrong, almost all the time. The bullshit in my head, I could write a book on it. A big book. But it's all bullshit. 

And you say, "Well, isn't there anything good in there?" Yes, there is, but most of it is bullshit. And when is it not bullshit? When I'm calm and relaxed and not overthinking. Oh, back to the psychological. See? An accordion, work together. You're just an ordinary guy, using free well at the lower level to climb levels of consciousness, where you use God's will and get your own free will out of the question. Just follow God, personal power. How can it be personal power, if you're following your own ego? Doesn't make sense. Your own ego is a lack of personal power, that's its definition. It's a belief, a concept of who you are; false of course, a false concept of Daniel. 

What's personal power? A truthful image of who Daniel is, connected to the universal energy of one. Oh, back to this one. It's all one. Or, "I'm going to pretend it isn't." Lack of personal power.

Daniel: Would you be able to...? I love this question. A "how to" question. (Harry: oh, a "how to"?) Yeah, a "how to" question. Because, again a lot of what I'm thinking about is people listening to the conversation saying, "It sounds all great and dandy, but how do I do that? How do I get there? What do I do? Where do I start?

Harry: Well, first of all, “how to” is white man's question, not an indigenous question. Indigenous ask, why should I do that? Why should I have a quiet mind? Why does that work? How does that work? The white man, in his analytical intellectual pursuits, asked how. He wants to textbook, one, two, three, four, five, six, and that's what Three Principles does on the lower level. It gives you a, 1, 2, 3, 4, it only works one way, it's inside out, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, and people have something to hold onto, until they come to the point where, now you're on your own you have to trust your instincts. Don't tell me how to do it? Now, I'll be honest with you, if you want a good answer to that, you talk to some of your other guests who are more psychological and they'll give you a good answer for that. 

But the "how to" is simple. Trust your instincts. That's how. (hits the table with his hand for emphasis). Be yourself. That's how. (hits again) I have to give a talk in front of a bunch of people, I'm like everybody. My first thought is, "uuuuuhhh", then my second thought is, "Oh, right, I just have to be myself, that always works." That's how you — stop being dishonest with yourself. That's how. (hits desk) Stop lying to yourself. That's how. (hits desk) Stop pretending that you know the answer. That's how. (hits desk) Accept the fact you don't know the answer. That's how. (hits desk) 

And what should you do? Yeah, do nothing. Shut up for once in your mind, and just going to eat that donut that you wanted to have. Get into a positive — if you're bummed out, the best advice I can tell you is plant positive feelings. Wherever you go. See, the problem with being bummed out? A) what are you talking about? What are you talking about when you're bummed out Daniel? 

Daniel: Why you're bummed out, all the horrible things that are happening...

Harry: Yeah, and it goes on, it's a river, it's diarrhea. Ok, so, and it creates form. We know Thought creates feelings. So, that doesn't work. So? What does work? See? That's what you're interested in. What does work? Wrong use of thought, does not work. Right use of thought, does work. It's about time you get the understanding of how that works. And how does that work? You trust your instincts, you trust your feelings. And you say "Well, I can't, I'm all mixed up." That's right, because you've been lying, deceiving. I can tell you, when you come down, you have a natural reset button. It's called balance. (hits desk for emphasis). You go back to equilibrium, you're not in this constant bullshit world. What happens is you fooled yourself, you bought the wrong set of advice and you let it go. And when you let it go, as long as you are holding on to it, here. 

An elder said to me, "Tell me what worry is?" I said, "Worry is nothing," and it is. You have a thought and you hold on to it, and you hold on to it, and you will hold onto it. Like, bummed out, ay? And hold on. Or addicted. Or mentally ill. Or stupid.

Daniel: And what Harry is doing for people that are listening and don't have the video is, making a face and holding his finger really really tightly. 

Harry: That's it. And so the chief, she says, "Well, what's the answer?" I said, "Isn't it obvious?"

Daniel: And he lets go of his finger.

Harry: There's the answer. Thoughts just float — you see, thoughts by their own nature float by. But they have lingering effects, which is consciousness. And so, they, by letting go, you're saying to God — cuz God needs some acknowledgement from you, Daniel. He's not going to just deliver, cuz he knows you're a bullshitter. You've been bullshitting him all your life. And you make that commitment, and say, "Okay," and you let it go, do nothing, and God delivers. Remember, the mantra of today's class is, you do your best, and Spirit will take care of the rest, 100% guaranteed, money back guarantee. (Daniel begins to laugh) 

It's so simple guys! Come on! Start doing your best! Don't tell me being bummed out is your best. You go, "Well, I can't stop thinking about it." Yeah that's correct. So then you have to look at where the answer is. Well, if all problems are caused by overthinking and you can't let it go, who's — of course this is 3P, low level psychology — who's doing the thinking? I am. Then you got it. 

"I am," is a spiritual term. I am-ness. I am God. I am the thinker. I am the creator of my reality. I am,

with nothing else attached to it. I am one, with God. I am God. Except, I don't think so. But I am. Spiritual identity. You are, you are God. But, of course you and I are not enlightened, so we don't, we have not come to that level of awareness where we're fully engaged in that. But we have tasted it. The word I like is we have glimpsed it. We have glimpsed that feeling. I have just glimpsed it, and you know what? I don't pretend. I'm not enlightened, I know. I wouldn't even pretend to be enlightened.

You know, a lot of people want to follow me and I go, "If you follow me, you're a fool. if I hear you repeating my words, you're a fool. You must not listen to me! You must listen to yourself." It's so simple. Give it away, you don't want it, you don't want to be put on a pedestal. That's only a route to fall down. Besides, I don't deserve it. I don't.

Daniel: As you were speaking about "I am," I thought about one of the questions that I had recently in another conversation speaking about what it means to feel that I am God and that challenge that most of us have with accepting that premise. And, what came to me was the phrase of "I am always there." And what I love about that, and what that meant to me was, I am always there, meaning God is always here, regardless of what I think, of what I do, of where I am, of what emotional state I'm living in. God is always here, "I am always with you, I am always you." God is always me, I am always God. And, so that became kind of a connector, if you will, help me to connect dots of that idea that was very elusive to me. 

Harry: Well, of course it did. Because that's Truth. It's true, so it of course connects dots. What came to me when you were talking that truth, which by the way was pure truth, pure truth, was that all healing — if you're looking for healing in the psychological or spiritual level, it's in the now. All you have to do is go into the now and you just described going into the now. So all my teachings are, everything I say is to take the client Into the now. And there, God reveals the essence of life, the truth.

Daniel: (begins to chuckle) I laugh because, I cannot tell you how many years I spent saying how difficult it is to be in the now, how difficult it is to be present. Years. Because I mean, I've heard that idea of being in the present moment my entire life. Be in the now. It's something that you hear about in almost every spiritual practice, almost every spiritual leader will mention something about it, historical poets will talk about it. I mean, it's everywhere, and we have this idea that it's so hard to do. But, that's the illusion. It's the easiest thing to do, is just be present. Just be present to...

Harry: It is until you — it, it's kind of a paradox. It is very difficult when you're not in it and very easy when you are in it. We have other phrases for that, in sport we call it being in the zone, we have musicians in the flow. These are all just examples of the people in different states of activity or states of mind entering the now, and that's what they live for. Mathematically, you go to sleep, you can't solve a problem, you wake up, your mind is relaxed, boom, the answer is right there, in front of you, in the now, type of thing. It is the most natural state, and it is where you should head to for all your healing. Not 90%, all of it. If you head towards what Daniel is talking about, I promise you you're going to have a better life and you're going to become a better human being. Because, you're up lifted, you upgraded the game. You took your thinking from a lower level of bullshit, to a higher level of truth. That's our job. Our job is to live at a higher level of consciousness, and the only way we can live at a higher level of consciousness, is to drop the past.

Daniel: It reminds me, the idea of, and I love this concept, the idea of aligning with our higher selves. The idea of aligning with the energy of life, and for me what I've been learning and continue to learn and will probably always learn, for the rest of my existence, is this idea that when I am focused on the content of my thinking, I innocently resist my connection with all that is because I am focused on the separation of my experience, focused on what I'm experiencing. And, having a deeper sense of this energy of life that lives through me and the capacity that I have to align with that, makes it easier for me to let go of the concepts in my mind. And the more that I'm able to recognize, innocently, that I get lost, it opens me up, it opens up the possibility of that realignment. Even the smallest indication of awareness that I am just caught up and innocently caught up in something, shifts, and it starts opening up that gap that allows you, allows me, to then feel that reconnection with life. And as soon as I do that, everything elevates, everything changes. My experience changes, my relationship to the experience changes.

So, what Harry and I are talking about is this idea of, again, having faith in what is true within yourself, that connection with your existence, that guides you and is available to you constantly. And that alignment with something that is more true within yourself than the misguided thinking that we are paying attention to. And for me that was, that has been, and continues to be very powerful in elevating my experience, in shifting my experience, in giving me a different relationship to my experience. 

Harry: Yeah, yeah. That's it. Now I want people to understand, Daniel couldn't have talked like that at the beginning, and it isn't because he's talking to me, that he's talking like this. As we enter into a more spiritual space, what happens is, we don't know where truth is going to come out. Doesn't matter whether it comes out for me or from him, but we're in this collective unity, of this "Us" energy that I call it, and in that Us energy, we elev — our minds, our personal thinking has dissolved into a different, a mushy state of clarity. And, so then he's sharing this feeling that he has, because that's the Spirit. You have to understand what the Spirit is. It's nothing to do with form and it elevates the level of who Daniel sees himself. But more importantly, you can see it elevates his level of sharing. So that he can see, personal power that he has. It's not that he's interviewing Harry, who is theoretically higher than him or not higher than him. whichever way you want to look at it, is irrelevant. What is relevant is that the experience is something that came out from inside-out, from God, expressed to the Gods out here. That's pretty powerful. Because that means that if Daniel can do it, anyone can do it. (Daniel chuckles) 

Daniel: Yeah, it's um, one of the things that I found really fascinating and it's in line with what you were speaking about earlier, about following, following whatever is being presented to you. And this whole podcast experience has been that. It's been really fascinating to see how many times throughout the last episodes, I've been wanting to change things. I've been wanting to rearrange the order of the speakers because this one makes more sense before this one, and then I'm reminded, "Stop trying to control things." (Harry: that's right) There's a reason, I am trusting that there's a reason and a purpose for the speakers that have happened when they have happened. And I don't need to understand it. And what I speak about and what we speak about in these conversations, I cannot tell you how many times I listened back to the conversation to say, "Oh my God, I can't believe I said that, it's not what I wanted, it's not what I meant to say, it's not what I wanted to say, oh, I would love to expand on that." And, I go back to the intention of this whole conversation is for us to be connected with the flow of whatever comes out and to trust that whatever comes out is what's right. 

Harry: And, it's going to help somebody out there. It's going to — I have a rule, if it helps one person the show is a success. It doesn't matter how many, one person's helped, the show is a phenomenal success. And when you're talking about the design, that's what I'm talking about. We, in our heads, we design things, literally. But the Spirit does that spherically and it and it makes sense in the dimensional aspect of it. And everyone who gets to the higher levels of consciousness has to face that. They have to give up their own personal opinion, because God has a different opinion. Everybody, everybody Daniel, faces that and all of us experience the same thing, "Oh, it worked out," if I didn't think too much about it or get too aggravated and let it happen. And then after a while, you know what you do? You just let it happen. And if it doesn't make sense, it will stand out, so that you will change it. But the basic reality is, I have learned one thing Daniel, that helped me a tremendous amount in the unbelievable evolution of Harry Derbitsky, unbelievable. Harry Derbitsky says yes, most of the time. Where before, he said, "I'll think about it," most of the time and then when he thought about it, it came out no. The higher level of consciousness says yes, most of the time. Because, it can feel that God is designing it. That's the way it works, and you just go, "Oh, okay."

I had this thing with the mental health transformation group, and this guy is a buzz saw. He sets up podcasts and stuff all over the place. Well, he decided to make me really busy when I was planning to take the summer off, so my initial reaction was, f%#k — oh, excuse me, fooie him, you know type (Harry begins laughing), and then my second reaction is, "Wait a sec, that's the dream, to share this group, what am I doing." And so I just said,"Okay, let's do it." And guess what? Each one has been totally different. Some are for the audience, some are for the guest, one of them probably hardly anyone will listen to, but the guest really got — the host really got a lot of it. You know? And you just, you sing. You're sharing love around the universe and the universe loves love. And does it love Daniel's love better than Harry's love? No, it loves love. And does it love Daniel when Daniel shares love? Ah huh. That's what we're doing. We're kissing (makes a kissing sound) reality. Personal power. Lovers of the highest dimension, the sensual nature of kissing Mother Earth. (both begin to laugh) I'm getting kind of graphic. 

Daniel: So, Harry, I would love to get a little bit into your books.

Harry: Oh, sure, my pleasure. There's four of them, but the last two are the — the last book is called — yeah, I want to describe it to the audience. So, here's a guy, never been addicted, now all of a sudden becoming an expert in Three Principles and Addiction, and never taken a psychology course, but he understood about the spiritual nature of the Principles as it applied to addiction, or anything else to tell you the truth. So, the first book — so, all of a sudden I'm doing this show and stuff, and I'm working in different places, you see, when you're with Spirit, Spirit provides work. That's the way it works. And, so I wrote my first book and it's called, Evolution of Addiction Recovery Book One, and then on the top you see there's a guy in a tunnel, trying to go out to the light, and it says Addiction, There is a Way Home.

And that's where I was at Daniel, with that book. I needed support from other 3P people, cuz I wasn't sure what I was sharing, the results were mixed, and so on. And so I wrote about being, there's a way home. And within it, I mixed in some indigenous stories and evolution and so on. Now, two years later Spirit says to me, gotta write another book. I go, "Gee, I just wrote a book, it's a lot of work." It said, "Nope, you gotta write another book." I said, "Ohhh, okay." This one, Evolution of Addiction Recovery Reopened, actually now I know what I'm talking about, that's what it really means, Book Two. it says Addiction, There is a Way to Total Freedom. You see, this first one is 3P, image, a way home. This one, total freedom. Would you rather just go home, or would you rather total freedom? 

Total freedom is what I taught in the second, and in it I say very clearly, it doesn't — this is a book, this book will answer your question about being addicted, but it's really, addiction is a metaphor for alleviating human suffering. So it answers all problems of alleviating human suffering. And, it also will solve the abduction scenario that you're in. So it's more a metaphor in the second book, and within it, I mix in the mystical side a little bit more. Because that's who Harry is. I don't do it because it's better than what others do. I have no choice. It's the only thing I understand. 

Daniel: Lovely, and of course I'll have links to these books in the description of the episode.

Harry: Tremendous, and link to my ACTtraining.biz, my website as well. And within that, remember, I'm doing projects that I have no right to do, but they're successful. What am I supposed to do? Say no? But, isn't that the proof in the pudding? I mean, I'm the lead coach of mental health transformations, I've never taken a psychology course, and I never had mental health, how can I be the league coach? Because, I am.

Daniel: So, as we're approaching, actually, we've passed the hour mark, I would love to finish off with anything that you would like to share. 

Harry: Okay, when you're looking for love, it has to be in a positive direction. And you are looking for love. According to Sydney Banks, if you want to find the love, the unlimited love that lies within you, the Three Principles are a wonderful way to allow that to happen. You cannot describe the Three Principals, they're formless, but they bulletproof any psychological problem you have. I guarantee you, they bulletproof any problem, if you trust the personal power of each Principal. And what are the Three Principles? One. (bangs desk for effect) It's all one. They are all the same, they're just different angles at the same truth. You are, I am, we are, one being. 

Daniel: Beautiful. So, Harry, thank you so much for the time and everything that you've shared. I look forward to continuing this conversation at a later date. 

Harry: It's been fun. This has been — you're definitely a step above most of the interviewers, way above. (Daniel begins to laugh) You found a niche, it's good. You're deeper than the other interviewer's so, that's important and of course you know, you can walk in many different worlds as well. So, that's important. That's why you're doing the show. You're taking — the listeners of this show are going deeper than most of the podcasts and so on, and you're asking questions from within your consciousness. That's what I have found out. Be yourself, and be true to yourself and you can't go wrong. YOU CANNOT GO WRONG BEING YOURSELF! (banking the desk with each word)

Daniel: So, anyway, on that note, I again, thank you for everything and I look forward to continuing this conversation at a later date. 

Harry: OK, send me the link. I look forward to it and I really enjoyed this, Daniel. It is definitely deeper than most of the shit out there. 

Daniel: I appreciate that. 

Harry: Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't say it if it wasn't true, and at the same time it allows me a chance to dance a little bit rather than just talk about details.

Daniel: Alright.

Harry: Okay, good, absolutely. So, thank you, have a great day and we'll tag up again sometime and keep singing. And read the book. (Daniel: I will do) The second one is quite a bit deeper, honestly. (Daniel: yeah, I'm looking forward to it) Yeah, I think you'll really enjoy it, and now that you've gotten some of the mystical nature of the indigenous, you'll see how I blend that in, as I bring more and more, that the answer is in the mystical nature of the Principles, rather than the psychological. But, I don't exclude the beauty of the psychological nature. I don't exclude that.

Daniel: Yeah, I find that for me the balance of that comes from — the psychological description that's provided by the Three Principles grounds my understanding in the mystical, back into my human reality, which is the reason that I am such a big fan of that description specifically.

Harry: Right, say that again. My mind wandered, I'm sorry, I missed it.

Daniel: (laughing) I'm not sure if I can but I'll try. That — what I love about the description that's found in the Three Principles is that it helps to relate what I am exploring and learning about my mystical experience, my spiritual experience, it allows that psychological description to ground it back into my human experience. 

Harry: Oh, absolutely. They're really good at that. 

Daniel: Yeah, so for me, that's the blend, (Harry: that is the blend) and so for me, the beauty of the psychological description, that's my human experience, and then there's the mystical expression, sorry the mystical experience, or the mystical learnings, and that's my spiritual experience. And so the two are connecting each other, and supporting each other, and leveraging each other. 

Harry: That's the truth, they are, they are, you know, type of thing. But that's — when those two become one, then you see the whole package. (Daniel: yeah) And, you know, that's correct what you're saying and people have really identified with the human condition, and it's important because if you exclude that, then you are going to have a — like, people who are just spiritual, have a tough time with their mental health. And the answer is, because they're, they don't have grounding to that they're an ordinary human being. (Daniel: yeah) They're a spiritual being, you know, it's non-dualism, or dualism, or whatever, you know, they have a lot of trouble connecting to the simple practicality that they don't know. And that to me, is the human condition. (beings to laugh) (Daniel: yeah) 

It's taken me a long time to admit it, but yup, Harry doesn't know. (beings to laugh) (Daniel: yeah) So cute, and he sure spent a lot of time trying to prove to people that he did know. 

Daniel: Coming back to the simplicity. 

Harry: Yeah, yeah. So, this emptying process is really liberating, cuz you're not contaminating it with pollution. I'm not saying totally or anything, but you're primarily getting — losing weight. Say you were a big fat slob, which would be a typical image of this, and then you lose a hundred pounds, you're still, say you weigh 250, you're still overweight. But you've lost a hundred pounds, of course you feel much lighter, and then you lose another 30 pounds, and another 25, and then at a certain point you go, "Oh, there's a body there." It's not just a big fat blob, and when you see that, you go, "Oh, I look pretty good."

Daniel: Okay, (Harry begins to laugh) it seems like...

Harry: By the way, I don't know I'm going with this, (both laughing) but I know I'm looking pretty good. 

Daniel: I want to say that I'm sure we can continue talking for hours, so...

Harry: Yeah, yeah, have fun, (Daniel laughing) hasta la vista amigo, and thanks a lot ay. Lots of fun.

Daniel: Absolutely, (Harry: lots of fun) it's been an honor. It's been lots of fun for me too.

Harry: Both ways Daniel, both ways. It's really a treat.

 

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